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tv   France 24  LINKTV  May 3, 2017 2:30pm-3:01pm PDT

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debate translated in english for you. here it is. >> alumni to make sure you receive the allotted time to speak. you will also be able to follow the subtitles on various french channels. this election has given the thet word, but we have
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first question for you. after months of campaigning, were only four days away from the vote and 10 days away from anyone taking office. how are you feeling, marine le pen? i'm very pleased about the way she's taking the runoff vote. the french people have made it clear. ofron is the candidate globalization, brutality, the war of all against all, the economic demands -- ransacking ,f our large corporations sweeping low on our interests, all of this run by mr. hollande. i think yesterday, votes in favor of mr. macron to the
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continue.that to i am the candidate of the people and france as you know it, as you love it, it's culture, its unity. of thehe candidate nation that protects our jobs, the security of our citizens, our borders, protects us against unfair competition and the rise of islamic fundamentalism. of course, the french people have been able to see the real macron in this second round. the benevolence has been replaced by a spike in the market. the strategy has been taken over by the socialist party, and the ise smile -- the wry smile grin.replaced by a we've seen the choices you have made in the second round, choices that are cynical. the use of campaign arguments that are shameful and that
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revealed perhaps the coldness of the business banker bet you never stopped being. i think this period an actual act of clarification was profoundly useful to the french people to decide. >> mr. macron, would you now like to make your statement? >> you have shown you are not the candidate of the spirit of finesse or the will to have balanced and open democratic debate. thank you for this wonderful demonstration you have just given us. i was not expecting anything else. i'm not going to say that you are the real terrorists -- the real heiress. the system that has prospered on the anger of the french for so many years -- i will not repeat that you claim this heritage because you have been promoting it since you took over control of this party. in over 40 years of this
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country, we have had to depends -- we have had le pens who have been candidates for this country. you will continue your know rrhea as your logo have for years. you explain to our predecessor that globalization is too tough. you are going to withdraw, get out of your, but -- get out of europe, but that is the spirit of defeat is an in the fight against terrorism. all democracies are facing this war. you say we are going to with draw and restore the borders of the party, as if that will solve the problem. in the face of this defeatism, i am defending the spirit of france, who has always succeeded and succeeded in the world because her language is spoken on all the continents of the world, france's history, it's
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civilization, its strength is that it's represent -- reputation is global and today, we are the fifth economic power in the world. we are strong in the world, and there are changes that need to be done, and i want to introduce changes, and if the incapacity, the inability of government for 30 years to do so, i will do as much as i can to remedy that, it these deep changes that want and which led me to resign from the government when i was minister i intend to implement reforms so that the spirit of conquest will triumph. that is the france i want and the france that resembles us. >> we can jump right into the debate. mr. macron, you want to reform labor laws. a few minutes to your. the problem the last 30 years
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has been the unemployment rate. inare the only country europe that has not succeeded putting an end to this high unemployment. youth unemployment is very high end of the face of this, we must give to our small and medium-sized enterprises possibility of creating more jobs, of seeing more agile, of adapting to more economic cycles. that's why i want to simplify things come to the right to make mistakes. it is a reform i will introduce this summer. craftsmen, small and medium-sized businesses are the main victims of complexity, and fornt to get rid of self-employed and independent workers, the social contributions. i want the labor law not to be
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the same, determined by a law which is too rigid. i want a labor law that can revert to agreements at corporate level, at company level, or at branch level, sector level, a company that can negotiate a majority agreement with the representatives of employees to reorganize will be in a better position to face the risks, the economic risks, the competition that it is facing, and that's how large companies have saved jobs in this country. those large companies are the only ones that have the ability to do that, so pragmatism for small and medium-sized the face of and in economic cycles, which are much shorter. >> so more flexibility? >> yes, more agility for businesses and security for calledes, workers, who for new reforms, reform of unemployment insurance, reform
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of vocational training to protect people in the middle of these changes. >> mrs. le pen, how do you see the labor market moving forward? >> well, mr. economy minister, or should i say mr. advisor of vision ofwhat is your the labor market? for years, you let hollande -- hollande'snd -- led economy. why did you not allow them to benefit from your recipes yet the your results were in the case extremely bad and in the case of unemployment, why are you standing for the election as president? that's the only question we need to ask because you had a free hand to implement that policy, and that policy was catastrophic because you did everything you know how to do. you helped launch businesses,
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the employment tax credit. small and medium-sized businesses that want to see a lightning of the difficulties to give them some oxygen. the pretended you did not want posted worker director, not available to french people because they are filled by foreign workers who are applauding or not because or as manyo defraud of those who do not, you did not shop, place a one-stop economic patriotism that horrifies you. anything that can give an advantage to french companies you areagainst because friends that subjects itself to the eu, unfair international
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competition. the industrialists did not know yet the number of large , so you voted one by large corporations. there is a whole series of series -- a whole series of rather complicated interests, so you do not have a national spirit. you do not think in the superior interest of the nation. i always blame you for that. you are defending private interests. the french people are aware of that. atre's a lot of hardship whirlpool. there are companies that are off shoring, and there is no anecdote. these are companies that you have sold.
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6000 jobs lost. >> for three minutes, met in has been explaining her strategy for unemployment in france. the fact is, there is not one. >> of giving you everything, i told you everything, everything you have done. >> what is extraordinary is your strategy -- for decades this has been going on. your strategy is quite simply to lie a lot and to list all the difficulties. if you have observed what has happened in recent years of the charges paid by the tax credit for competitiveness -- >> [indiscernible] quick that's why my project, i propose to cut the charges. i want to cut corporation tax. all companies, including for the large companies, whereas i give total priority to small business since
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they are the ones that create jobs. you are making life easier for big business again. for your friends. >> the french deserve better than this. they deserve the truth, not insinuations. you say you are very well informed. was not a minister when ffr was sold, and it belonged to a totally private -- >> really? you were not mr.? you told that lie in front of 10,000 people in the debate we askeden that question was of you. of course you were minister. .ou were leading immediately, you signed the deed
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of sale. >> it belonged to a private group called vivendi. we are in the state where we respect private business. you are making a lot of mistakes , and it does not help the country to move on. >> nobody wanted to sell. when you have a private group owned by private capital, look in your files. >> yes, i will find that for you immediately. january 2015 before parliament. i have the decision -- >> you're not talking about the same subject. >> the day after they let you
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grant, with the sale, that is the reality? why don't you just accept it? that's what you do best, to break up companies and do m&a. you can do that very well. >> you are reading a file that does not correspond to the case we were discussing, which shows you were not prepared. >> sold against the interests of france. ,> general electric all storm we can look at the details of the file as you are mixing the different files. telephony, and the other mixed turbines and industrial equipment. it is not the same sector. >> the only problem is that you can sell everything but not to the benefit of the national interest. fornemployment falls in-depth reforms. you can shake things up. >> deregulation, etc., that is what what to do.
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>> matter le pen does not want to talk about substantive matters. she wants to talk about the past. is simplicityoday for small and medium-sized enterprises. more pragmatism. we need to have a policy in favor of investment. this is indispensable to fight against unemployment. proposing anything to fight against unemployment. your knowledge of the files is very approximate. . propose to create jobs >> we would like to hear your suggestions on something that is very important to the french people. it seems like neither of you in your political platform have decided to change the 35-hour working week. want negotiations to happen by sector. mr. micron -- mr. mac run -- mr.
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macron wants negotiation's to take place by company. it's fratricidal because negotiation by company is to throw pick companies one against the other. you know full well that in the sectors, there will be the large companies that, of course, will be able to adjust the working time, but now there's more companies. that is your plan. the big, the small. i'm opposed to that. if negotiations happen, they have to be by sector and not by company. who wants a law to the power of sin, we do not know the executive order. i assume there will be the
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scrapping of the indefinite term contract for the roadmap that the eu, and you are taking the boxes with a great deal of discipline. you are very disciplined and respected. >> ok, but this out right deregulation, this breakup of labor laws obviously will be a policy that creates more precariousness, more jobs, but additional unemployment as long as we do not change the economic model defended by the system that is behind you, all the socialist ministers who are supporting you. >> i'm waiting for your answer on the 35-hour week. you're not answering the question. >> you are trying to get us to arget that you are part of
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government that made labor even more precarious, did not create new jobs but higher unemployment since you left the government then when you joined. but i see that you refuse to accept responsibility for that. >> i know once again you do not want to assume that responsibility, so the measures you are recommending today -- we have seen what they are today, but i say that obviously, we must radically turn our backs on that policy and have a policy that protects jobs and that develops small businesses because they are the ones that create jobs in our country. >> mr. macron, your turn to speak. you're not questioning that 35-hour work week. >> with extraordinary as you are not answering the question but always talking about the past. i'm listening to you. you talked about everything and about nothing. answered that. i'm answering the question,
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which is -- and a want to know, what are small and medium enterprises asking for? they want more visibility. whatever their size -- i'm not only talking about large groups. large groups have managed competitiveness really well. the medium size very small to very large businesses -- they want more adaptation to economic reality. the business in the construction sector, which has two employees, does not have the same experience as a digital start up or an automotive company which has 500 employees, so we must give them the possibility of negotiating a majority agreement at corporate level. yards save jobs by negotiating an agreement -- >> [inaudible] italians. >> i did not sell the shipbuilding yard.
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they almost disappeared two years ago. they signed an agreement with the unions. there was part-time work, and they had a good order book. they were not sold to anyone. you can attribute me all the sins for the last 30 years. i have been involved in politics for a much longer time than you. >> it has been a wild a deal was in the offing. >> you have a big problem with industrial issues. >> it has been a while since this file was on your desk. >> i signed contracts for ships to be built in those shipyards, and i say quite simply, they signed those agreements which created more flexibility and more jobs. i'm also in favor, notably from the smallest company, there should be sectorial agreements, a business with two employees does not negotiate corporate
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agreements. leaders at the sectorial level that we can negotiate more flexibility, more labor lost that will allow us to hire people more easily. our economy needs to be hiring more -- >> not just small companies. >> you are also in favor of sectorial agreements, but we must allow small and large companies to sign these agreements. when we revitalize our economy and stop the destruction of jobs like in the recession in 2009. >> so you assume that it is the employment labor code that creates unemployment? that's a strange vision. my principal -- and this is confirmed by the small business system, i see far more than you small business around your table are very often big business.
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of theshow contempt employees. they gave me a very good welcome. they know my plan defends them because they know what is killing them off -- it's your policy, the policy of unfair competition. the state strategist does not intervene. these small companies go off seeking workers, low-cost workers, as was the case, but i'm offering them to tax companies that relocate. they will no longer relocate abroad if they do not have to profit, if they have no benefit to go to countries where wages are very low, if they are taxed when they import their products, then they will no longer leave because there will be no financial interest in it to them. secondly, i want to put in place a sovereign fund that will allow such intervene in a case
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as the above that has been broken up by vulture funds. the state must intervene and trust a sovereign fund to business leaders to have the qualities of duration and private sector efficiency with offering reasonable yields when you consider once again that the of the strongest must apply in its normal but companies break one another up. that's why you organized when you were the head of the bank. >> we should push forward, mr. macron. >> and agency for states are holding, which means a state in the investment company. of thete increases share capital. >> you see, i'm proposing it. -- t's interesting because >> this is a sovereign fund that i would entrust to business leaders. >> the public investment bank already exists.
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>> not a bank, a sovereign fund. >> i see that you are trying to play with me, the teacher and the pupil, but it's not my thing. bettercountry deserves debate. in the case of whirlpool, what you propose is nothing. you do not respect people. i heard the anger of people. i spent hours. you spent 15 minutes on the parking lot of whirlpool. you did not even go to the company premises. >> where you were protected from journalists? >> i'm that the employees. that is what it means to respect people. when you were playing to the cameras, i was with the representative of the employees because i respect them, and you know what? they understood that you do not propose anything to them. >> they booed you.
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they said, "out, out." >> utile propose anything to them. they are angry. if anything, you wish to communicate a statement proposing the nationalization of whirlpool. >> that it be protected by the state. >> some of you had problems, and that was a mistake mr. hollande made. >> and you went to see them and say that is what globalization is like. i'm going to fight for reinvestment, fight so that you have -- >> you are really not credible on this. do you realize that? >> i am much more credible than i am not -- se >> the truth is, we must push forward.
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>> i have had a number of victories and a number of failures, but i always fought. >> victories to protect jobs or victories to protect companies that are buying each other up and scaling back? saved ave -- we have lot of companies. >> if you would please listen to us for two minutes, we have -- >> i have never done what you did the other day, to take advantage of the distress of the workers. >> i never went to hide in a with trade union representatives. i go and see the workers. the workers. not to hide in a small room. >> if you please -- >> that's the big difference between us. >> we cannot dwell on this for too long. >> we cannot hear ourselves think anymore.
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we need to push forward. there will be other opportunities to come back to the issues the french people take -- face. with top taxes and purchasing power. many french people are expressing the frustration with the current tax system. what is your opinion on this frustration? >> it was my plan to make savings in order to cut taxes paid by households and companies. we must be clear -- if we do not make any savings, we cannot promise tax
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05/03/17 05/03/17 [captioning made possible by democracy now!] amy: from tampa, florida, this is democracy now! >> the regime did not fight terrorism. it is the single biggest cause of isis in syria. if you talk to syrians, bashar al-assad and the regime is the biggest teterrorist in the country. amy: as president trump and russian president vladimir putin agree to seek a ceasefire in syriria we speak to journalilist , anand gopal.

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